[Vudukitty]

This message is not directed at anyone in particular, but you will all understand, hopefully the importance of this message.

Problem:
Lately we have been having poor turnouts for raids, and also for particpation. I have noticed some things that upset me greatly with this. We hae some members who think it is OK to go lfg and use the chat channel for this purpose while we are forming the raids up. This is unwise to do while I am int he chanenl,cause i am a kitty with an airon fist, well some metal of sorts... Also we have had some very poor attendance lately from not just those who are new, but some of our regulars. Certain class types are not showing up at all. This makes it very dificult to get a raid formed that can do anything of value. For example, last nights raid attendance had exactly 3 clerics, 2 of which were of the boxxed variety. This kinda makes it hard to set a hel routine now doesn't it? I am not picking on the clerics, or any other groups for that mattter, in some cases we have been short on tanks and DPS. So dont get flaky on me here.
Because of the lack of solid performances we have had a rash of failures lately. This is not something we as members, nor me as an officer and SL like to see.

Solution:
I realize people have RL commitments and also that from time to time things come up that you cant raid with us. This is not the issue. What I am suggesting is that when you are free to raid you join us and come with the sole purpose of beating to death anything that we have come up with as a target for that time.
With Your participation we can tackle larger raids and items with better loot and have loftier goals than what we currently have.

As an item of interest, everytime I am either a RL or a SL for one of our raids I will be giving a ontime bonus to those that have felt that we were worthy enough to share their time with. Hopefully the increase in dkp will be enough of an incentive to gain back the supprot of all of you who have somehow strayed from the flock. We will also be updating the goals for AH for the coming months. Please be aware we still have the overall goal of reaching Anguish and other goals that we feel we can achieve.

Hopefully we will see you all there on Wednesdays raid and going forward.

Vudu

[Ladile]

Just to reenforce what Vudu has said, AH has *no* problem with people not being able to come raid due to RL or guild commitments.

However, we have been having trouble with attendance on some nights as of late and frankly, the SLs and RLs are not entirely sure why - SO, if you have any concerns that you would like to voice about the raids as of late, please do so. The more leadership knows, the more likely we will be able to work to make improvements on our end. Keep in mind though, that we can only do so much - if you, the general populace, don't come to play when you're able, then it severely hampers what can be accomplished.

[Olidan]

[Suegar]

I want AH to be all about getting me and my alts loot! O.o

[Zenshiss]

I admit I'm one of the ones (due to guild requirements) that hasn't been able to participate much lately, and being what could possibly be considered a key class (well, maybe not!) I do apologize for that.

In general, however, I'm really puzzled as well: we are this close to Anguish guys--a couple of practice runs and 3 more encounters (all of which are accomplishable by AH, no questions asked, if we get quality attendance), and we'll be learning, and then farming, Anguish to our heart's content.

This is a critical step in my opinion for further progression. Just like PoTime was/is, Anguish farm capability will open up all kinds of possibilities for AH, and I know for one I am busting my butt (and losing guild cred if I slip up even once) to do everything I can to make sure we finish MPG Trials and get ourselves to ToyLand(tm).

Here's to hoping we can get re-motivated to drive through these trials and move on the really awesome stuff!

[Olidan]

[Ardnasc]

I would love to get to Anguish myself and think it is a good goal. But like getting to Time it requires a bit of learning, trying and a few failures to accomplish. Not only is there excellent equipment upgrades there but it is required to get our epic 2.0s.

I would like to hear from some of the folks that are not SLs about what they would like to do, targets they think we might do and haven't, etc.

What we need is feedback, what the folks in AH really want to do and would show up for.

Have Fun!
Ardnasc

[Krisstoff]

I'm guessing with school starting back up for some, that has had at least a small contribution to the decline in attendance. I haven't been able to play EQ a whole lot in general, but I do what I can to make it online in time for raids each night.

I'm guessing the biggest reason people aren't showing up is due to the new expansion being released. I know it's been out awhile and that many people are 75 already, but it's the only answer I can come up with. For saturday's raid we had 31? or so at the raid and about 48 in the AH channel IIRC. All I can assume is that a lot of people seem to be more interested in exploring the expansion.

Along that note, TSS has introduced some easy-acquired loot that is better than Time quality, minus the focus effects. It seems to make sense that a lot of peeps would rather fight with 5 other people over needed upgrade versus 40 people (albeit the raid loot has better stats).

As far as I know AH has never done it in the past, but perhaps we could look into active recruitment? By no means am I advocating it one way or another, but it would help with an immediate boost to membership. The downside of course would be the learning curve for new members, and we would likely have to gear many of them up.

Anywho, whatever the SLs decide works for me. Hopefully turnout will pick up soon and we can continue to beat down new stuff
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X <-------my signature

[wurms]

I just want to kill stuff, anything anywhere. just app'ed 10 days ago but only able to make it to 2 raids so far. on a side note im still waiting on my "youve be accepted" e-mail and access to member forums
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Wurms 75war 900aa

[Darby]

I'd really like to see people showing up earlier, Ive been an hour early in PoT for about 3 or 4 months and I usually see Wendaen or Vudu sitting there already.

I have limited time to raid week nights, if we're currently working towards a target by about 9 - 9:30ish I'll stay, if we are still gathering for the first mob, Im logging off at 9 pst.

EVERYONE should make it a point to be in PoT by 7:45 pst so we can otm by 8 pst (7:30 pst would be better). A lot of things are happening behind the scenes 30 minutes or more before raid time...like trying to assess the strength of the raid and what targets are doable etc...

My biggest frustration lately has been 1/2 the raid getting to PoT after 8pm, we delay otm to 8:30...we dont have enough porters so we have to run or wait for ports to cycle thru....its 9 pst before we're even starting, and Ive got to leave.

[GenomeReseekwensed]

[Divinax]

I certainly have no answers, but I offer up some observations. My perspective is from someone who has been in fairly successful raiding guilds in EQ for over 5 years.

From a self-serving perspective, I sincerely want AH to continue to be successful, attract more participants and progress through EQ's content. Without AH I wouldn't have similar opportunities.

A full raid will be a successful raid. All raid attendees need not be tricked out with the best equipment or spells. Active participation is the deciding factor. The RLs can easily adapt tactics to the raid force in attendence when sufficient numbers are present.

EQ is full of time-consuming "qualifying" steps that must be overcome in order to gain access to the desired content. (VT key quest, PoP progression, MPG trials/Signets, etc.) These tend to stall progress and have lead to many a guild's disintegration. A guild - or group like AH - needs to provide incentive, and the means to achieve these typically non-raid quests to attain the greater goal.

Attendence problems typically lead to greater dependency on boxxed alts as a short-term fix. This leads to bigger attendence problems as the boxxers demand and receive rewards to their alts - afterall they are significant contributors - while the non-boxxers become more frustrated. As more non-boxxers leave, the minimum number of attendees on any given night becomes increasingly critical for the success of that night's raid. This can lead to an inescapable death spiral.

AH has experienced significant core participant and leadership changes in a short period of time. To some, it may seem like a corporate reorganization. The new leadership needs to "finds its feet" and assert themselves in a positive way that attracts followers. Some quick wins will surely lead to greater success. Presenting a positive face on difficult issues will inspire everyone to contribute.

Those that may choose to leave or with-hold their participation in a wait and see posture will surely be missed. Those that remain must pick up the slack and move on. When someone chooses to return, they should be welcomed back without retribution of any sort.

Kunark raised the level cap from 50 to 60, PoP to 65, OoW to 70, and now TSS to 75. Each of the previous expansions that raised the level cap required players to "earn" their spells/disciplines by progressing through content and obtaining spell or rune drops. TSS introduces a new variation, based on the EQ2 model, that allows a player to obtain their base spells by gaining the experience necessary to level up. Predictably, everyone has put a priority on leveling to fill their spellbook. This helps AH, and their respective guilds, as higher levels gain huge advantages when doing content tuned for lower level players. Recognizing this desire to level up our characters, one option is to reduce the scheduled raids per week to give folks more experience time.

These observations only reflect in-game factors. As others have mentioned, there are alot of RL issues that are factors as well. The difference is that AH can only influence in-game behavior. Because RL situations are beyond AH's ability to control, don't waste effort trying to accomadate any of those issues.

[Olidan]

[Lymantok]

For myself i dont mind doing Time, Uqua, or any long missions or raids. I think a good part of the game is trying something hard, failing and then fianlly winning it. I sort of like the idea that AH is going for things like anguish access, or DON progression. I am not sure why peeps havent showed up other than they are doing the TSS stuff. Maybe if we went to short Loot raids during the week and then do long ones on Friday/Sat (such as the uqua, DON, and Anguish missions)then more peeps would come out.
As for me i will always be there if i am at home at 11pm EST no matter what raids we do.

[Mercenarie]

I have noticed a decline in attendance also and tend to agree with others that TSS may be the culprit. There are lots of nice items that are one-groupable and it seems that these items might be more attractive to some. Lately, I have joined late because my son's guild has spent more time raiding. I've also left early because I've had to pick up my other son from work. (He finally got his car back. Yay.) I like the idea of doing short raids during the week (multiple quick targets) and then things like Time and Uqua on weekends. Of course, we can expect another slump soon as the holidays approach. All-in-all, the attendance issue may not be as big a problem as it seems at first glance. I've seen attendance in many different guilds go through cycles. So maybe its just the new content or maybe attendance will be back on the upswing again soon. The leadership is great and the content is lots of fun, so hopefully our numbers will be back up before you know it.
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Mercenarie - 74 Warrior

[Ladile]

It's good to see some votes of confidence around here - builds morale!

It's also good that folks are comfortable sharing their own thoughts and feelings about how AH is doing lately. Speaking for just myself, I suspect that there are several reasons for dips in attendance:

(1) Some of our regulars are getting more involved in their RL/guild matters (this covers college, kids, work, etc.) - which is GOOD, we don't need any pissed off guilds or wives after us

(2) TSS - Plenty of people are still working on leveling, getting spells, working on quests, and getting item drops.

(3) Recent changes in leadership - Something that holds true for me and probably for a few others is that I tend to lose some of my drive to go raid when there is a major change in raid leaders (I've seen similar when guilds go through leadership changes too), as we are comfortable with these people and suddenly having things change can decrease the comfort level sometimes.

(4) Losing and Evaluation of Targets - I have heard some concerns about attempting certain targets, such as MPG trials, with lower numbers. When we do this, sometimes we still win, but other times, we lose. People don't like to lose and/or die. Leadership doesn't like to lose and die any more than you, the raiders, do. If we have a bad string of raids, people may become reluctant to come and spend their time for potentially no gain. This leads to a cycle; numbers drop, we can't always attempt what we want to attempt, we either lose or have to revert back to smaller targets, which means people get bored or get tired of losing and stop showing up, rinse and repeat.

As I said before, these are just my personal observations. In no way am I attempting to say that all or any of these reasons apply to everyone, or even specific people. However, in cases like these, I feel that honesty is the best policy. Let us know any sort of information that can possibly help the management to make AH into what you guys want it to be - what targets you'd like to see, what levels of loot you think we should go for, what raid times work best, etc. I won't promise that everything suggested will be acted upon, but it *will* be considered and it helps us alot to know what sorts of targets we should be planning on hitting in the future

*edit* Also, if you have something you'd like to share but would prefer not to post publicly, please feel free to discuss it with me or with another SL and it'll get passed on to the management.

[Xyyth]

I'll just be upfront with why I haven't been around as much as normal. I've had 4 real life friends who I have been trying to get interested in any type of MMO for several years now. The good news is that they finally got interested. The bad news is that they got interested in WoW and not EQ. In fact, they are sort of addicted now like the rest of us are with EQ.

I basically have to divide my free time after work up between 2 games. Recently, I've had to catch up to my WoW friends in level since I got way behind and when you do that, it takes time away from the other game. I really don't wish this situation on anyone because it is more stressful than fun.

I owe a lot to AH and I will never forget what I have achieved with that help. I was sort of upset at finding out I had missed a few key raids simply because I didn't check the schedule...which I had been doing before I got spread thin between 2 games.

My apologies for that. I will make a better effort to attend more raids.
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Xyyth Rohrlohrd (73 Beastlord) - http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=242104

[Shieara]

It's no big deal Xyyth.

I think WoW is more appealing to people in general. I think most like the cartoony graphics and the speed of the game. I was in a similar situation also where my brother wanted to do WoW and that was one of the reasons I quit earlier. It was sooo stressful trying to find time for him in WoW and show up to lead raids. Anyways my main point is that playing with friends is fun, so spend as much time in WoW as you like!

So anyways, back on-topic. If you are one of those in a situation where you are not logging on because you don't think you can catch up, I'd encourage you to go ahead and try anyways if you want to raid that night. We've got a couple others in that situation (Auldaen I believe is one), and I always try to make an effort to get those people to us. There are some exceptions, like if we are maxed on numbers for DoN or the trial we are in is locked out, but for the most part we will get you to us.

Just please remember to send me a tell about a task/raid invite. I try to watch the raid channel but I don't watch the Afterhours channel at all when we raid, so you are more likely to be missed if I don't get a direct tell.

[Southpaw]

I myself work during the times AH raids. and can barely get on to raid ( if at all) this is because my work hours changed from working days to working nights. i just wish i could raid more because i want to stay decent in game and would love getting anguish flaged . but as it is i have no trials done and 3 of the sigs . ( i have 3 group trials done ) if my work hours ever change back you will see me on alot more and on raids. but till then all i can really do is sit back and try to get lvls in exp groups for the 3 hours of play time i norm have

[Tetrafluor]

I myself haven't been around nearly as much for the past 2 months or so than I had previously, though it has nothing to do with AH... I've decided to make some RL health changes, and though they are good changes, I've ended up being much more tired in the evenings, which means I generally get only a max of 1.5 hours of raiding before I get too tired to continue.

This of course generally doesn't give me enough time to finish our first raid. I really hate bailing after only one raid, and try never to bail in the middle of a raid, so most times if I already feel tired by raid time, I just head to sleep early. Weekends though seem to be much easier though from a sleep standpoint, especially saturday, so I'm still trying to join up at least one day a week.

That aside however, I've a couple observations that may or may not be accurate: I agree with what Vdaen indicates, that we need more people, and they don't necessarily need to have great gear. When I joined AH we were doing PoP flagging, and most people didn't have decent gear. I noticed that most of the time raid attendance exceeded 50 people, and in a number of cases especially during elemental planes, raids were maxxed. While a lot of those were long raids, they were decent loot, and imo very fun raids. There was always a good chance of winning the raid (i remember there were very few nights that we didn't win), the loot was therefore plentiful, lots of friends were there to make things interesting, and people seemed to have lots of fun.

As of late with the decline in attendance, that also means less friends are on to have fun with, we tend to have a more difficult time with raids, and also don't end up getting progression or loot. All of which seem to make raiding less fun, and therefore continue to hurt attendance due to less motivation. It probably also makes it less attractive to new recruits because they see a high failure rate in the raids, and don't end up coming back for more (I've noticed several people from my guild apping and coming to one or two raids and never returning).

I'm not necessarily recommendign that we should go back to earlier PoP content (though I know some people might like to get those flags instead of just looting for time access), but maybe during this decline in attendance we should focus on at least mixing in some of the easier encounters (that have reasonably decent loot for many of the new players) while we build back up our active membership and morale? I know I was hooked when I was able to get a decent drop (for me at least) early on as an app that none of the vet players wanted.

The last comment is about the ease with which people can app. I know we've raised our app requirements relatively recently which may contribute to a lower app rate (higher req's will mean more veteran players, but probably less overall apps), though separate from this, I know that in some cases it has been difficult for some people to app just from a "red-tape" and responsiveness perspective. I've seen a number of postings of people "still waiting to hear anything" about their app, and also I know a couple guildies who gave up having not heard anything (i forwarded a couple to the right people to get things rolling).

Also I know when I joined I basically had to ignore the auto-emails (some of the info was outdated) and contact an SL in game to actually join. Is there still a problem with the response emails being outdated, or could they use an overhaul to make things more responsive and therefore make it easier for the new recruits to start raiding with us (and know the rules)?