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Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 2:29 pm Post subject: OMM, Draygun, Vish, and other difficult encounters.
Hello my AH friends and family,
Just thought I would post some of my thoughts on OMM, Draygun, and Vish, just to name a few of the more difficult encounters we are having problems with.
I'll start with CoA. Slightly off subject, but the comments were made last week that our "crawl" was sloppy and we should wait for the monks to pull mobs back to us. At one point, we had a bad pull that was likely my fault. We had just finished the aug mob and I thought we would be resuming our crawl. So I move up toward the stairs to see a monk running back past me.. behind him was some untold number of mobs. Needless to say, I got aggro and died rather quickly and apparently the mobs then ran back to the raid and proceeded to kill several of our clerics and others. My opinion on this is if we are in crawl mode, then lets crawl. If we are in pull, clear, and move mode, then don't call it crawl. A crawl would imply that the raid is moving forward and the tanks are engaging the mobs and the raid is moving up behind them and clearing them out. A pull, clear, and move would be where the raid stands still while our pullers pull ahead and the raid does not move until an area is cleared and otm is called. To me, it makes no sense to have the monks running back and forth over large distances to pull to the raid when we can cover that area just as fast in crawl mode.. maybe even faster without the delay of pullers covering large distances....
Anyway, sorry for the tangent and back on subject...
It is also my opinion that CoA should be done all in one night. It makes no sense to split it up into two nights where we only get one shot at OMM. I would prefer to see us cover all of CoA up to at least AMV and possibly a single attempt at OMM on the first night. The second night would be dedicated to at least two or more solid attempts at OMM. We are never going to be able to work out our strats and get everybody familiar with the encounter if we only make one single attempt per week.
The same would be true of Draygun or Vishimtar. Pick a night (hopefully do some research and see which nights are most highly attended), post it so all are aware and then make at least two solid attempts at Draygun. With Vishimtar not requiring any clearing, we should be able to make at least 3 attempts in one night.
I know that there is the fear that people will get discouraged with repeated failure in one night. I have to say that people also get discouraged with repeated failure week after week. We have shown so far that whatever we are doing is not working. Something needs to change in order for us to finally conquer and move beyond these encounters. If someone else has some other ideas, please let's hear them.
Cheers,
Rich
p.s. I have had issues hearing my audio triggers over battle sounds and just recently had it pointed out to me that your Audio triggers are not tied to the same volume control in options window. If you are having difficulty hearing your audio triggers, then crank up your speaker volume and turn down your sound volume in options. You should then hear your audio trigger loud and clear then.
To address the omm issue, if you clear it in one night and then try again the next, you have to kill amv to trigger him, cept this time amv drops no loot whatsoever. On the subject of pulling while we crawl, ive had words with people repeatedly about not pulling while we are supposedly crawling, they do it anyway. The only luck I ever had was to race ahead and engage the mobs as they were pulled. Even then the monks tended to pull more mobs on top of my head
I would LOVE to dedicate a night to vish, draygun, queen or whatever else but the problem seems to be attendance lately which has been horrible. When we do get enough people later in the evening and try to otm to a hard target people log out, if announced beforehand people simply dont show. I know im only posing problems here and not solutions, simply because I dont see solutions to the attendance problem. People want loot without any deaths, and seem too shortsighted to percieve the loot that would come by beating the encounters we are stuck upon. My audio trigger is not an ingame one btw but a simpsons quote, its loud enough to hurt when unexpected but no worries I could ever miss it
Well, the problem with doing CoA all in one night is that most people get tired by the end of the run and we don't perform well on OMM. If we split it into two nights and focus on just the OMM encounter (though we would have to kill a lootless AMV) nothing drops but augs, and it is hard to get people to devote time to that, especially with the long crawl.
I have tried having an night devoted to Draygun and Vish and each time we got extremely low attendance. As Suegar says when I announce it ahead of time noone shows, or if I announce it as the next target they mysteriously have to leave. The only conclusion I can draw from this is that people simply are not interested in doing the content. I will use the ToB night I had planned as an example. Some of the mobs were totally within our range and they drop incredible loot, but we ended up with around 30 people. When we decided to go to CoA instead more people suddenly were available to raid...go figure.
The bottom line is our strategies are fine but we need the right classes and right number of people to show to win. We need the dedication of our members to pull this off, and for whatever reason we don't have it.
If someone has suggestions on what I can do to get more members to show then I am open to them. At this point I have exhausted everything I can think of.
Joined: Oct 27, 2005 Posts: 457 Location: Oklahoma
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:01 pm Post subject:
look at it as an adventure. a learning experiance. an investment in future loot. Look at is as whatever will get you to come. I really can't understand some people's aversion to new content. I relish a challenge.
For me, sleep is sadly always the issue. I try and make the first 60-90 minutes worth of raids regardless of the targets. I dont really care about the difficulty or the loot factor so much as the time involved. Once we go past midnight in the east, I usually weigh my chances of staying for the next target on the time it will take. And the time isnt so much a factor of difficulty for me as are the issues of the amount of time to clear etc.
A while back, we started clearing COA trash a few times prior to 11pm est when we had enough on, and I really liked that idea, because it seemed we were ready to move to KTH etc right at 11. Maybe we could get some trash clearing started on the OMM nights? I imagine some of us east coasters could start almost as soon as Vudu makes first call.
I can't imagine anyone not wanting to raid because they feel they might die and lose experience. Death has such a small negative impact with a 96% rez, but I suppose it happens.
Personally I like the edginess of a possible death (even in group content). Without the chance of death the game would quickly become boring to me. You Kill, grab better loot so you can kill the next target without a challenge....hmmm not for me. Maybe I am just crazy, but the fear of a possible death is what makes the game fun for me. Bring on the hard challenges I say.
I did some basic checking of our raids and attendance and such. It seems that since September 1st, we have not had a raid with more than 50 people. Most of our raids in September were in the low 40's and some in high 30's.
Back in August, we had several raids with 50+ members present. So what has changed between August and now..?
Perhaps school has started and some members are not able to log in as often...
Perhaps some members sense some stagnation and have moved on...
Perhaps guild raids and lockouts are prohibiting members from attending AH raids....
I am sure the reasons for lower attendance are as varied as the members of AH. But the question remains, how do we get more people in the raids, and more importantly, the right classes...?
Has AH considered open recruiting? Word of mouth only goes so far and it would seem that we have saturated as far as we can go within the representation of the various guilds in AH.
I would have to assume that this sort of discussion would already be taking place in officer/SL forum and chats. Are there any thoughts or ideas that have been discussed that you can share with the rest of us?
Should we maybe move CoA to Fri/Sat night so that early bedtimes for work and/or school may be less restrictive? Draygun also requires some clearing, so maybe we should plan him for Fri/Sat nights also... maybe alternating weeks..
Maybe we can do the Vish attempts on a Wed/Thur because it does not require any time clearing... Council of Nine would also not require any clearing, so it would also be feasible to make more than 1 attempt on a wed/thurs night....
For any members who may not be attending on the nights these sorts of mobs are scheduled, we really need you to show up. If we don't go because we don't want to waste our night on another pre-conceived failure, then we are only ensuring the fact that others will fail. Shame on anyone who is waiting till the rest of us get it figured out and get the mob finally onto farm status and then you decide to show up. I rememer our first attempts on Jevlan event and AMV. It took us a few tries to get it down, but now that we all know what we are doing, the encounters are easily handled. The same will be true of Vish, Draygun, OMM, and others we are yet to attempt.
One last thought...
If we have problem with attendance any given night, then why night do a CoA week? First night, Wednesday, clear all the way to Hanvar at least, even do 1 attempt at OMM. Then schedule Thursday, Friday, and Saturday nights for repeated OMM attempt until we get it right. Do the same with Draygun, Vish, Council, or any others. Just keep at it and don't give up.
First and formost know that I have NEVER avoided logging in because of what is scheduled that night(with the exception of the PoP retro week)
That said. We have gotten to the point where wone person can royally f##k up the raid. And one person, allways seems to be anonomasly, IS royally f##king up the raid. I cant speak for anyone else, and know that it isnt affecting my attendance at all, but this is royally pissing me off. I am so weary of logging in, heading to a fight and lo and behold, someone f##ks up and pooches us all. Sooo.. another wasted night.. yaay.
Now, this isnt affecting my attendance, but it may be in large what is affecting other peoples attendance.
Short form of the above. Whoever is f##king up. STOP IT DAMMIT.
<edit> Thought a badword filter would catch that.. my bad heh
Joined: Oct 27, 2005 Posts: 457 Location: Oklahoma
Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:04 am Post subject:
valid. A note to that regard. If you find yourself being the one that does mess things up... ASK someone what you should have done. Willingness to learn is a valuable virtue, one that should NEVER be abused.
edit: or perhaps you see someone doing something wrong in that regard, either talk to them or ask a SL to help them out. We are responsible for strengthening all of our links.
On the other hand, if you aren't interested in bettering yourself (Don't be confused I am talking about skill and attributes that are not bound to 1 toon), get out of our way imo.
Joined: May 02, 2006 Posts: 1 Location: Telford, Tennessee
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:23 pm Post subject:
In regard to the attendance issue and the rest of september post in the time and place section, is it going to be an issue for those who can't attend raids every night when we do those week long encounters? I'd love to come to every raid but due to my 6pm to 6am work schedule mon. - thur. it makes wed. and thur. raids impossible to attend unless something happens. My fridays have been ganked also until further notice to play catch up at work .
I'm sure others may have a similar situation so would it be better if we didn't show for those particular encounters or bail when we get to them?
Joined: Jun 02, 2005 Posts: 1019 Location: Camas, WA
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:45 pm Post subject:
You should never have to "bail" on a raid because you may be unfamiliar with it....just pay close attention and follow directions (ask questions to SLs).
Joined: Oct 27, 2005 Posts: 457 Location: Oklahoma
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:04 pm Post subject:
took the words right out of my mouth culd, ask as many questions as needed do your best to follow directions!
regarding missing a day on a possible week long attempt... just make sure you reread directions as they may change throughout the week. Shouldnt be set back any more than that.
I see no reason for anyone to have to bail, unless you just aren't flagged for a zone or have lockouts. Strats will be given and if you have questions ask...I always try to ask if all understand but sometimes I do forget.
Joined: Aug 11, 2006 Posts: 40 Location: Valencia, CA
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:37 pm Post subject:
Low attendance on nights where loot is not a given (i.e. hard encounters) is not just a problem in groups without mandatory raid rules. We were going through that in CFu until we beat event 2 (which took us 3.5 months). Each day we raided it, our attendance got lower and lower, but on the weekends when we were doing AG:N and FC2, our attendance was extremely high.
People want to raid to get loot (mostly). Others want to raid to kill the hardest stuff the game has to offer. Some people raid for both. I know how discouraging multiple failures a night feels.
We were failing event 2 in solteris for months, 3 days a week, 4-5 times a night. That sucks. Our attendance kept getting lower and lower, and finally, one night, everything clicked. We won. Like 2 nights later, event 3 was down. 6 or so attempts on event 4, and it was dead. Now our raids are overflowing with people. where we were struggling to get 54 in a raid, now we are having 60 people almost nightly.
I don't really know where I was going with this, but I guess I was just pointing out that attendance problems are everywhere. The other thing is, during the summer, RA usually drops quite a bit as people are out doing stuff more often than in winter when it's cold and everyone stays in. _________________
Joined: Jun 02, 2005 Posts: 1019 Location: Camas, WA
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:39 pm Post subject:
Good points xil.....I think a lot of folks don't appreciate exactly what we've accomplished thus far in AH. At best, we try any given raid once a week and we typically have a dozen, or so, new faces for each attempt. I think we even had some newbs on our first vish win.
Raiding guilds, on the other hand, hit targets over and over again and often do so multiple times per night (lock-outs permitting). They also tend to have the same core group of people on each subsequent attempt, so it's not like starting all over again as with AH.
Although it took us several months to beat vish, I bet we had no more tries than most of the better guilds on BB...
So, be proud of what we've accomplished and try to understand that even guilds like club fu can take weeks/months on any given encounter and that's with more consistent attendance AND hitting the target almost nightly.
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