[Lostin]

First, I am amazed at how well AH OTM's and have been since I joined. As someone who ran quite a few pickup events off and on years back, I can say AH is light years ahead of most pickup raids, and that's an accomplishment because that's essentially what we are.

I think we all have been noticing how slow things are moving lately, and I think it's a sign of a healthy organization that this topic can be discussed without finger pointing and caps locking.

I've read the posts and I think one big factor is missing from the discussion, and I think it's the biggest thing slowing us down:

Right now, we are in progression mode.

It probably doesn't help that the big guilds on our server are both in hardcore farm mode on content they have all done a million times by now and can do with their eyes closed. It's easy to start comparing AH with some of the raiding guilds, but it's not fair to compare the raiding experience there with ours right now. It's a world of difference between farm mode and progression mode, no matter how uber the guild.

Yes, there are raids that go from target to target to target punching them in the kneecap and taking their loot. Guess what, we could do that too, if we raided only content we've beat we could run around smashing everything with barely a pause, and I know this because it's what we do when we have a couple kills under our belts. Even though this organization is larger than most, once we have all done the event and know what to do, we get it done quickly.

I really think that instead of changing much right now, we just need to suck it up and realize that we are going to move slower while we are all learning. I think this discussion is great, but we need to expand the timeline and not think just about the last couple of weeks.

However, as an aside note: when people ask in channel where the raid is forming up, they should get a correct answer telling them where to meet the raid. If people are concerned about spies in the channel send a tell. There is no legitimate reason in today's EQ that they can't get a clear answer. As the raid is forming up, no one shoudl EVER be told "Go to the website."

[laenyani]

I agree with everything you said lostin, except the where are we meeting comment. Ever raider should be responsible enough to go to the website on tuesday or wednesday and look at the planned raids and meeting places. I really think this is an easy fix for everyone. I myself do answer when someone ask but i do feel ppl should know.
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Laenyani
Muse of Bristlebane
"I remember when patchwork was uber"

[Wwein]

Hehe I agree with lae. I personally have no problem with people asking and being told the target in channel, but the majority always voted against it. In any case I think it raises the issue of coddling raiders. We're all big boys and girls and can all check the calendar for targets, read the first post of the strat threads to know roughly how the event works, buy invis potions and download maps, etc etc.

Some raid groups stop completely for 1 member, while others put it 100% up the individual to get from point A to point B and then fulfill their role. We lie somewhere in the middle of these two philosophies, but pushing to the latter would probably speed things up in the long term at the expense of delays in the short term (Eg people being late for not checking calendar, or dead from not invising, or wiping from opening MMM doors).

I agree with Lostin about the progression mode thing too. If we did Octa and SF we could hit all 4 in one night without much difficulty (spindle has a lot of unavoidable pref unfortunately though). But MMM and Deepscar have a lot of complex scripting, and big bynn and Rottrued require extensive shuffles.

What we could try though is a 5 event policy. This would be that once an event has been won 5 times, we let the groups share strats to raiders new to the event, and begin right away without listing strats. We would still have to pause some for shuffling and buffs, but not as much at least. Alternatively we could have a designated person announce the strats during the event to both inform and remind people. Some events I try to do this but if I have to bring Scaredof along it becomes impossible (unless I play both characters with my hands and type with my face, but then I invariably get the G key lodged in a nostral).
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http://www.spamhelp.org/harvesterkiller/

[elric]

First off, Cobra, thank you for making that post. I hope my response did not offend you, as that was NOT my intention.

LOTS of good ideas here.

Oh, and really, Wwein, which nostril?

[Acoma]

I love this thread, amazing how what we talk about behind the scene comes to the surface from the members as well.

Yes, there is alot to leading a raid.

Yes, the stress level goes up.

Yes, we would love it to go faster.

Yes, we would love to be OTM at the appropriate time.

and yes to a bunch of other things. We really are always discussing how to make this monter machine work better almost every day. I Pesonally think leading a raid is great fun and at the end I want to smoke a cig realy bad, which is a good thing. But I have alot of real life responsability and as much as I love to play this game sometimes I just cant play till 3am, which is about what time I get to bed on a raid night, then making breakfast for the kids at 7am and off to work at 8:30. Trust me I want this raiding experience to be as streamlined as possable every night and it has come leaps and bounds over the years and gets better every month.

I have started to make Hotkeys for the end of this month, for when WW is going on vacation, with strats pretyped in for all of the farm targets we currently have. Yes our make up is different every night but the basics are always the same and that is what I am putting in my hot keys. The extra stuff, MT/OT/MA, rebuff team and all the other stuff I can type as I go. I dont want to take 10 minutes typing out a strat anymore, plus I am always afraid I am leaving something out.

I am hoping to be able to raid this week and next to get familiar with our newer targets, MMM/Queen/Kith, since I have yet to go on one of these as of late RL is again rearing its ugly head and I am usually loging off right around raid time.

Leading a raid is not as hard as you may think, it is just very involoving and encapsulating to the RL. You all are by far the easiest bunch of toons I have ever lead and that makes a big difference. You cant win every encounter, I know that but I am a U9 soccer coach, but we want to and as a RL that falls on my shoulders so just remember that and always think of what it actually takes to pull this off 4 nights a week.

Wwein listed some Ideas on page one that are all great and we have even started to do some of them. We are always open to input from all of our members because it helps the leadership conform to what is going on. Never be afraid to step up to a situation and bring something to light that we may be missing. Never be afraid to bring up a new idea or strat. We have this great website resource in order to convey these things since it would be impossable to do this in game.

Thanks to all of you, yea even you wDarby, for the input and everything you all do to make this organization work. Keep up the good work and we will go far and I am happy to remember that this is a game after all and want to make the most of it, well as I can.
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85 Ranger|85 Shaman
Plus 85 Cleric

[Cobrawastaken]

No problem Elric. I knew when bringing this topic up I would get some backlash. And by no means am I pointing fingers. We should strive for perfection as a group. I just wanted to bring up some points.

Wwein - I think you hit it perfectly about how you are doing too much. I also agree with the idea of after we hit a target x amount of times, we should expect that the majority of people know the strat and simple group chat should be enough to fill others in or refresh eachother's memory. I also agree with someone that is familiar with the raid encounter calling out next steps in /rsay. I'm sure that many people would not mind at all calling out a raid encounter (including myself) and I know it sure helps me out a lot when you someone does it. Like I said in a previous post, long strats to someone new are VERY confusing and the occasional "Next we will burn xyz" in rsay is much easier to follow. And anyone who has done the target is probably zzzz during strats. Oh, did I say that out loud?

[Mariu]

I dont think this post or my responce on this was a knock against the raid leaders at all. If members would be there on time ready and do there job 100% of the time I am sure the leaders would shit them selves about how easy there jobs become. lmao

There are things that everyone can help with from drunk raider (ME) to raid leader.

As far as time for targets myself I dont mind spending all night on 1 target that we have yet to beat. Its that when we do a bunch of attempts it takes so long to get back up and going we get 2 attempts if we are lucky before we lose to many raiders to do it again.

I dont have any good answers....... You spend less time with strats and we wipe then it gets blamed that no one knew what they were doing, you spend more time and we wipe then it took to long to engage so no one waited around for a second or 3rd attempt.

I agree that group leaders should take more of the burden of explaining the event to anyone that hasent done it before. I also have read the stats on a bunch of the events and to be quite honest im lost most the time till we do it. All I or most people need to know unless they have specific jobs is follow assist and watch what is called in raid say. If you say in raid say stop attacking people should stop attacking, if assist is called they should on the same damn mob as the main assist. If people cant do that then someone needs to have a talk with them. I read the strats and have no clue then group leader says mariu mez any dogs you can and I say ok.... Its easy at that point. To much information can be a bad thing sometimes.

Again on some of the new targets there will be a learning curve but taking 40+ minutes between attempts on a target that takes 5 minutes to run too is a bit crazy.



Just my thoughts..... Feel free to ignore my drunk ramblings.....

I will be back raiding Thurday or friday. Kids had a blast at seaworld.

Also cobra will prob be AFK for a couple weeks they are having there second kid tonight. Well she's in labor anyhow havent heard anything so it could be tomorrow by the time she pops it out. lol