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Joined: Feb 08, 2006 Posts: 508 Location: Mansfield, Texas
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:59 am Post subject: Loot
Ok guys, whatever happens next EVERYBODY needs to take a step back and take a deep breath. I think things are getting a little heated and finger pointing and that will help no one or AH.
My point of view from reading all of this is to leave the system the way it is on regular raid nights and on Sunday nights.
With everything that has been said maybe some folks will think twice before they bid on an item that isnt entirely appropriat for their class, then again maybe not.
The only thing I know is that Everyone should think about whats best for AH as a whole. I know thats what I do, You seldom see me bid on items even, I always think someone else can use it more and I still have items that have less than 300 hp on them etc. I know elg feels the same. You may not like the way he presents things but his idea is to make AH better.
And I can say the same for many of you who have posted here.
I just want everyone to be content enough with the solutions that it will not damage AH. Throughout history when empires and even little guilds have become great in a short amount of time like has happened to us over the last 8 months there are always issues with rewards. Please dont let greed interfer with what we are doing and where we are going.
I feel we are a great family place to have fun and get some nice stuff. I Feel that everyone has his day. If you dont get what you want today then maybe next week but it does come. Lets all remember that and also remember the days when we were having to do group content for group drops just to keep ppl busy and get gear. Lets look at where we are now and be thankful for every person we have that helped us get there. I feel everyone in AH is invaulable and its nice to remember that when you talk to each other here and in game. _________________ Laenyani
Muse of Bristlebane
"I remember when patchwork was uber"
It saddens me that you did what is tantamount to a personal attack on Rwekk simply for voicing his opinion in the same thread you castigate me for doing personal attacks based upon improper loot choices. I think by now its rather obvious opinions wont change based simply upon logical or not so logical arguments. So I shall spare everybody the pain of reading through more arguments even though a big part of me desperately wants to, especially for Zacs comment on the posted parse
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:29 am Post subject: Change for a 5?
My opinion on the Sunday loot rolls is largely irrelevant, but I'll post it anyway. Last Sunday was my first such raid, and unfortunately will be my last until I either don't work on Mondays or move out west (which will be happening soon enough).
So far, my experience with /random for loot distribution is that it works just fine with a group, and done in a round-robin fashion, but just isn't practical for raids.
Aleax wrote:
Hmm... Maybe we should use this method on all raids... 5dkp open to specific classes only... once it drops to 3dkp or less... open to all.
That would alleviate the rogues not getting the dagger complaints as well as address the issue of cheapskates trying to get what they truly need for as little as possible. i.e. 1dkp or bonus..
Aleax's post is the only suitable suggestion for how to do preferential or class restricted loot I've seen so far, and that largely depends on the fashion in which the restrictions are placed. While it would probably upset a lot of people to make the change, and it's not even being discussed as an option, I could live with it if this was made the sanctioned raid loot rule.
I agree with Zacatac as well, since he does bring up a very valid point regarding slots, namely that certain slots have something consistent across all or nearly all upgrades that fit it. For the neck, it's a healing focus.
Yes, mages get heals. Yes it's better served by going to a priest. No, I'm not going to pass on the first twenty, thirty or forty necklaces that drop simply because it has a heal focus on it and a priest would get a 5% bigger heal mod from it (for 15%+ upgrades, I'll step aside in a heartbeat). They all have a heal focus, and I need a new necklace.
For the essences, I don't know what the answer is. Setting up a secondary DKP list would be a huge timesink, difficult to implement and confusing to boot. /random doesn't strike me as the solution, either. Some people are lucky, some people aren't. I haven't won a spell rune on a /random in quite some time now, although I've won the OTB roll two or three times since it was created.
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:19 am Post subject: Re: Change for a 5?
Anadriel wrote:
So far, my experience with /random for loot distribution is that it works just fine with a group, and done in a round-robin fashion, but just isn't practical for raids.
/random doesn't strike me as the solution, either. Some people are lucky, some people aren't. I haven't won a spell rune on a /random in quite some time now, although I've won the OTB roll two or three times since it was created.
This is the general agreement /random simply dont work and is out from the options, the poll might be up today later or tomorrow morning; if not ill set the options in a common thread. _________________
Hell, why not just go ahead and make Sunday an F'ing official raid night. That way people can follow "the current rules". Trying to make new rules for an "UN"official will just make it an official raid. Back in the day on "un"official raids, the RL told you their rules. If people didn't like them they could leave. Then once the poll is completed, you can go ahead and add Sunday nights as the 5th official AH raid night. I also want to say that I take a little offense to the AH becoming great in the last 8 months comment. AH has been great all through the short years it has been around. If it wasnt, it would not have lasted this long. I am sorry, if you are going to make a poll YOU NEED ALL OPTIONS, you can't leave one out. Doing so is purely not the brightest idea and self serving. Doing the poll that way is like asking,"Who is the best world leader of all time?", and having George Bush #2, Marie Antoinette, Mussolini, and Stalin as your only choices. I am going to shut up now before I really go off, and make even Suegar blush. _________________ <a><img></a>
I think that either we need to seriously consider at least a vote on adding class defaults, or seriously consider slapping a muzzle on those who openly attack people for making what are essentially good loot decisions based on the true nature of this game, organization, and raid force.
It sounds to me like you and Elg are hoping for the same thing, so I really don't understand why you keep making personal attacks. _________________
It's so hard not to go apeshit over the negative comments directed at me.
I passed on a dagger once, when I was top tier rogue knowing we had already won the queen event. I assumed I would be able to get next queen dagger, i didn't realise that every beast, bard , ranger, and warrior w/ more points would want it. But my loss, i passed, and thought maybe i'd win it in the roll. Saving my points for queen.
I play till 3am and often work at 6am. So its a sacrafice, the raids I missed are me deciding, ok I need to give up on top tier and let odnz ahead. It's not worth it to work on 3 hours sleep, but even still I do it often. Telling me I skipped raids because i'm greedy is horse shit.
I came to post that i thought the current system was not rewarding everyone in a fair way. I didnt come here to attack people.
Way too much drama for me, i wont post again in this thread. _________________
Loot ethics is a touchy subject. I've just removed a whole bunch of bickering posts and arguing, and I do not want to have to do any more of it. Before any of you post please remember that real live human beings read them and that people have feelings. I do not want to hear "but he started it..." or "but he said....", I don't want to be your mother, and I don't like having to moderate forums.
From this moment onwards I will treat any name calling and argumentative behavior extremely seriously and you will be disciplined for breaking forum rules.
As for the loot, remember two things:
1. Each of you genuinely wants a fair system - you just differ on what the fairest system is
2. Each and every one of you have been greedy over loot at one time - I've seen all your bids
Forget the past. Only consider the rules for the future of the Sunday raids. Anything else doesn't belong in this forum. If you have the urge to bitch about anyone, or want to complain about my moderation then send me PM.
also please keep in mind this discussion is about sunday raids only, not raiding procedure in general. the dkp system for offical raids is currently not under debate and i have seen lots of stuff about that. please be nice to one another we are all firends here /group hugs _________________ And you can't fight the tears that ain't coming
Or the moment of truth in your lies
When everything feels like the movies
Yeah you bleed just to know you're alive
Man, even on vaca wwein taking charge, kudos buddy, Hope its not rainin too much in Ireland( home of the Italions ). If rwekk ya think i was attking ya i wanst bud. I just used rog class in general. The only person i semi-attacked was elg.( complained when i looted an AC item, Kin won a rot rol for 2hander )
Anyway reg AH loot system is 100% fine, no flaws that i can see.
Sunday loot all random can be a lil starining. simply cause my dice are always cold. someone posted a win one item , attend 3 more raids for next possible chance to win , thats a great idea.
see yall tomorrow
Hell, why not just go ahead and make Sunday an F'ing official raid night. That way people can follow "the current rules". Trying to make new rules for an "UN"official will just make it an official raid. Back in the day on "un"official raids, the RL told you their rules. If people didn't like them they could leave. Then once the poll is completed, you can go ahead and add Sunday nights as the 5th official AH raid night. I also want to say that I take a little offense to the AH becoming great in the last 8 months comment. AH has been great all through the short years it has been around. If it wasnt, it would not have lasted this long. I am sorry, if you are going to make a poll YOU NEED ALL OPTIONS, you can't leave one out. Doing so is purely not the brightest idea and self serving. Doing the poll that way is like asking,"Who is the best world leader of all time?", and having George Bush #2, Marie Antoinette, Mussolini, and Stalin as your only choices. I am going to shut up now before I really go off, and make even Suegar blush.
Agree Frank, that option is going to be added to poll. _________________
Joined: Feb 08, 2006 Posts: 508 Location: Mansfield, Texas
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:16 pm Post subject: Apologize
I want to apologize if I offended anyone else besides Franklaw with my comment about AH growing so fast in last 8 months. I certainly didnt mean that AH hasnt been great all along. I simply meant less than 8 months ago we couldnt get 20 ppl together to do anymore than group content, now our raids are full almost everynight. That was a quick regrowth admitedly.
I am proud to be in AH if we are killing at Orc Hill or MMM. I only want whats best for AH and all of us. I am concerned some of the things said in this thread are not in that category.
I do have faith in everyone that we will not let this get any further out of hand and damage AH's capability to continue moving up and onward.
See you all soon. _________________ Laenyani
Muse of Bristlebane
"I remember when patchwork was uber"
Random loot even if alts win is still better than no raid at all.
With that said I would still suggest the following:
1 win random, then 3 raids attended with no loot, then you can start random again. It allows the loot to be spread around, is fast, and forces people who won to continue raiding consistently if they want to win another item.
One roll per person, I dont care how many toons you are boxing, just think of your boxes as a helpfull guarantee of a win so you get a chance at you getting to random for your main.
No set rules on who gets what, but I think we can all use our own common sense. Ranger wouldnt be rolling on a shield that would be just a toy if Knights and others who would use were rolling. If a Rogue wanted a slasher, a Beastlord a piercer, a warrior a bow then a big old GRATZ to them. They will benefit from it also and deserve a chance to win them.
With all that said, dont forget we spent 2 hours trying to even fill out the raid this past Sunday, so if we make it an extra "official" raid night, we might not have that many people missing a chance anyways and it will force them to be on in time to get a spot so we can do 2-3 hard targets, instead of just wiping on one target and calling it a night.
If people didnt get in the raid, they could still earn tiers if they were on the bench like regular nights, and spend it on upcoming raid nights.
We also could rotate the night from Sunday to Monday each week allowing people who couldnt make one night the chance the following week.
Enjoy the game people, the loot is bonus. This happens every time loot is new, within 2-3 months the dagger or such could be going to bonus loot. You never know with Sonys random method, 2-3 of any specific item could drop on next kill and someone wins with 2 tiers. Of course it may never drop the night you are on and you may end up skipping to a higher one down the road. CoA did that to me over and over I saved and saved for the Jelvan belt and still never ended up getting it lol.
I like the idea of offering the more class approate items to certain groups first. Also with the runes, Rallos raid the first Glowing rune for a cleric offers the single shot of Galla rk3 which would be a nice benifit to raids.
As far as alts, If somones main is in need of an item it would be rather selfish of anyone to take such item for an alt, should be a moral standard more than a rule.
Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:28 am Post subject: well done
I agree with oakmania,( somone else had a a similar post) for sundays raids. BTW, lostin are ya an attorney? idont think ive ever seen such a long post before.
Im a newbie here so im hesitant to offer an opinion..but Id like to say 1 thing.EQs a game guys..people play it to have fun.It should be fun .People should never take loot so seriously theyre gettin mad over it.It ruins the game for themselve and for the peeps they play with.Just have fun guys ..everyone will get a chance
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/group hugs
